… We prefer classic television forms… Tradition - if it is smart and productive - is very important in art. And the best proof of it will be our today's guest - Oleg Menshikov…

***

Episodes from the set of "Burnt By The Sun".

***

- I can't combine myself with my roles, my characters at all, I don't know why. And I think it may be unnecessary, because… Well, this combination happens all the same, but it happens on some other level. On the level that I can't describe. I think it's more valuable than… Well, if you play only the things you experienced, then there won't be much to play (smiles), or all the roles will be similar…

***

Episodes from "Dyuba-Dyuba"

***

- A director should start all the mechanisms. But an actor should be ready for it. Frankly speaking, I don't quite understand how one can get ready for it, because it all happens when you are reading a script for the first time and you already feel some common points of view. It is impossible to describe them, it is not even "like or dislike", but something, something just coincides, you know…
There were times when I read a script and put it aside thinking I wouldn't act in a film. Then suddenly, a week or ten days later, I felt this "bang". I recalled the script and read it again…
By the way, talking about my irresponsibility, that's why it happens. I don't come to meet a director because I feel I haven't found… Well, it's a waste of time to arrange a meeting because I have nothing to talk about. Because I haven't seen it there. But some time later I may see it. That's how it can be.

- And who said you were irresponsible?
- Oh, everyone says it (smiles broadly).

- Directors?
- But, you know, I can be irresponsible only before the shooting begins. Let's say, when there are negotiations, rehearsals, preparations - the first level. I think that during the shooting I am responsible.

- You know, still, such irresponsibility must have some strong inner base. I mean, I can… I don't like to rehearse. I really don't. Especially in the cinema. Well, it is not interesting for me to repeat things two or three times. Why should I do it at the rehearsal and then repeat it on the set? Something can disappear for me in this case. But if I know what I want, if I feel it here (points at his chest) - the things I want to achieve - it is enough for me. I guess, the rest is a matter of our work with a director, our mutual understanding, arranging normal conditions for an actor - I am not talking about just myself, I mean an actor, in general - so that a person could feel well, could feel that he's alone, that there are no 15 people on the set, that he exists right here at this very moment. Actually, because of it, cinema is…
I had this feeling a couple of times - I guess, only three times - the feeling of combination of time, so to speak, within and beyond the take. This is a precious feeling. It can happen in the theatre too, but you can go on describing it for a long time, and 300 people who witnessed it can confirm your words - if they felt it, of course. And when it happens on the set, it gets filmed. It is when you fly away (smiles). It's when you realize that it seems to be you and not quite you, at the same time. It is impossible to explain it. It… I felt this twice in the theatre, when I said something, I opened my mouth, but something was happening, something was changing and I was changing too. Well, when I act, I see the camera, I see the audience, feel some emotions, some feedback. But such moments of flying are so wonderful, they are great.

- Is it hard to return on earth after this?
- You know, it is so quick! It's not that I fly away for half an hour (laughs) and they start looking for me. No. It happens within seconds. But these are precious seconds. However, I am sure one should have a huge base for this - both professional and specifically for this role. You should know what you want. Because, for example, Nikita Sergeevich Mikhalkov and I had discussed everything. We had very few rehearsals, but we discussed and knew where to go. I think he trusted me in it, and I trusted him, of course. That's why there were some sparks there.
I can't even put it into words. Sometimes it all depends on glances, and everything is clear. "Do you understand what you should do here?" - "Yes, I do".
Whether it was success or not is quite the other thing, but there are variants, one can try, but… I guess, understanding can be in the common point of view at what we do in general and in what I do as an artist. I think this is the most important thing. Understanding of your place, everybody's place. I don't know… Well, understanding of this life you are about to join. Because after it… As soon as you make your first step correctly, then it goes on all by itself. This is also one of those wonderful qualities few directors have, in my opinion. And Mikhalkov has it. This quality. First, he creates conditions so that we could make this first correct step. And, I think, he has no idea he does that. If you start doing it on purpose, it becomes… this mathematics immediately ruins the emotion. And he… Well, it is probably God's gift to him to live like this and to be able to arrange the process and the set…
I forgot what you were asking about… (Laughs)

***

Episodes from "Burnt By The Sun".

***

- Do you feel being beyond time when you are on the set? Do you forget about the things you heard on TV or the radio in the morning?
- Well, yes, I do. I think, I do. If the things I heard were not too shocking. I guess, I do, of course. But I don't do it on purpose. It happens by itself. Well, this process is like that… I just know this thing about myself - if I handle the role, yes, the work… "The work" - I am not talking about the preparation period, I am talking about the set, about the shooting process. I can do anything, but it is already here (points at his head) and it… It's not that I make it stay there. But it creeps in there and stays. And I don't necessarily have to think or read. "Go away, leave me alone", - I am not like that. Well, that's the way I do it. It's different for everyone.

- You know, what matters to me is… I really don't know how to put it. Well, first, it is, of course, the presence of professionalism, but it must be real professionalism that creates relations of a different level. I just don't know how to explain it.

***

Episodes from the set of "Burnt By The Sun".

***

- High professionals speak a different language. I mean, 80 per cent of chatter we use… working with, let's say, not so high professionals, disappears, these 80 per cent. And the work becomes… I like not to say everything while working… I like it very much. Yes, of course, good partners are necessary, of course! It's at the level of glances. When you understand that they see you.

- I don't know, I think it's impossible to have it all the time, but if you want to create something genuine, the genuine should be not just on the set. It should surround you, and then you'll have it inside of you too. I understand, it is very hard, and maybe now it is even impossible - I mean Russian cinema. But as matter of fact, everything is possible. And one should have ideas only about impossible, only then (smiles) something can be achieved.

- When I know I can't do something, I will do everything not to do it at all, you know (laughs) - be it stage or cinema. Because when I do something, I like doing it well, and if I can't it's better not to do it at all. Well, I can't make friends with horses, and it is mutual reluctance to make steps towards one another. And it doesn't make sense to even start it. It just doesn't happen, it doesn't happen at all. They don't perceive me and I don't perceive them. Unless I have distaste for something, I can try and do something new, something I haven't done before. But if it's not like that… No, I can't say I have made some fundamental discoveries while working on a role.

- Anyway, all this is fanaticism and the experience we could have, so to speak. We don't have it, but we could have. We understand, everything could happen to everybody - so why couldn't it happen to me? Therefore, it is all at a fantasy level, which, in my opinion, is - if not the most important, then - the basic thing for an artist.

***

Episodes from the set of "Prisoner Of The Mountains".

***

- I also like it when everything happens quickly. In August (on August 11) I real the script, and on September 4 I left for the set. And before that I'd thought, "Well, another autumn without work"… (Laughs) And the work was great, it was great. First, hard conditions unite people. Then, we had a great company - Sergey Bodrov, Sr., Lebeshev, in whom I believe I found a congenial soul.

- Well, what if your partner is not a professional, even if it is a very good person, like Seryozha Bodrov, Jr.? Was it hard?
- No, it wasn't! (Laughs) It wasn't. It wasn't hard for me, because in spite of the fact he had never done it before, he obviously had some special flexibility in his nature and he managed to do it. No, it wasn't hard for me, it was interesting.

- We always play things we don't have in reality, right? The things that are lacking. And we supplement it playing a role. So, maybe that's what happened.

***

Episodes from "Prisoner Of The Mountains", "Kinfolk", "Burnt By The Sun".

***

- One should spend as much as possible in life, then it will help onstage. That's what I think. Well, onstage, on the screen - whatever. To save… What to save, for whom? If this road is chosen and it is aimed at giving, then you should give. And when you give in your life, then, I don't know, maybe you learn something, gain something and then send it there (points at the camera).

- Do you follow emotions or mind in your life?
- Certainly, emotions. I mean, at first, emotions and then, I guess, mind. Well, you know, of course, it depends on the situation, because somewhere somehow it may be… Nope, at first there are of course emotions. Well, I guess, I am not alone in it, I think, almost all the people are like this. Of course, there are people who don't "switch on"… By the way, there are such people actually. I kind of admire them because they don't let go lower than this (points at the head). It is a remarkable quality. I guess, it may be of help in life. One can even envy. I don't say it is bad, for God's sake. But lower than this - no way! Here (points at his chest) - no way. It just doesn't go there. So, a man probably lives longer, looks better, I don't know (smiles). Yes, I've just recalled, there are such people. But I am not saying that it's bad.

- I wonder, does it happen that a role wears you out or, on the contrary, brings you in a very good shape?
- You know, it is not a role in general, but the things connected with a role. That's probably what it is. A part of life you are living. Yes, there must be some good feeling. I can't recall a thing that would oppress me in my work. I either stay neutral, the way I was before it, or a role gives - the work on a role gives - some inner strength you don't even thing you have. And it will not necessarily turn into your work. It can turn into life, just to live.

- Are there moments of disappointment in your work?
- You know, I didn't have any, frankly speaking. It's not because everything is okay and there are no things to be disappointed about, no. Maybe it happens because my attitude towards my work is a bit minor. Well, it's not minor, but, let's say, it is not the main thing in life. So… I can become disappointed in something in life, as for my profession - it can't happen. It is a part of me, so it doesn't make sense. Actually, frankly speaking, I stopped getting disappointed in anything. I don't even know why… Well, first, not to get disappointed you shouldn't get fascinated. Besides, while associating with people, I actually admit, I give a person right to do whatever he likes. Whatever. I believe, it's a person's right… Well, you know, when they say, "One can't forgive a betrayal". One can! Why can't one? One can forgive everything. You just have to assume that a person can behave the way you may not expect, but he can do it. Any person at all. Because we don't know what can happen to us. And if you can accept this thought, then… But don't get me wrong; I am not talking about some ratio or scheme. I really give every person the right to behave the way he wants to. If he behaves badly and I think it is bad, it doesn't mean that he thinks he behaves badly. This is a long conversation, a long theme (smiles). Everyone can live the way he lives.

- Has this understanding come recently, or was it accumulating inside of you, or have you always lived with these feelings?
- No, you know, no. I haven't always lived with these feelings. Well, I guess, I become wiser little by little (laughs). Well, I don't know, something is coming, I guess. I rarely talk about it, but when I talk about it, I don't know whether one can understand it. I used to be a terrible maximazer. I got offended… To get offended was my favourite process. At a slight misunderstanding I stopped talking, a person didn't exist for me. But I am not like that now. You know, someone said that resentment is the destiny of parlourmaids. So, it is stupid to get offended. But I certainly take notice of people's actions. But no more than that. It doesn't mean I turn away. Well, it's like this. A person lives like this. It's OK. Let him live.

- How do you react to failures - do you get angry, upset, what happens to you?
- You know, it depends on what you mean by a failure. Because if we are talking about cinema, I act rarely and only if I feel I need to do it, and I do it. But how can one say whether it is a failure or not? What I wanted to say, I said it. I felt a need to speak my mind about something, and I did it. So, I don't know how to say whether it is a failure or not. By the reaction of those who watch? Well, it's… Why talking about it, we all know about it (laughs). That's why… I can't define it… It's not because I don't fail, but because I can't say - right then, at that very moment I failed. That's my life, it goes by, and I go with it, and my roles are a part of my life, so, how, how can I say…

- You know, this is really incomprehensible how to trust. And maybe we shouldn't even discuss it. The thing is done. When I watch a performance or a film, it is very hard for me to say anything, even if I liked what I saw. It's not because I don't want to say it. It's because why do people have to listen to what I think about it? If they force me somehow (laughs), I will say, of course. But to throw myself into conversations about something that's done - I don't like it. Or rather I am not interested in it, let's put it this way. It's done - that's it! It's already there (points behind himself). Why to talk - how it is done, bad, what you wanted to say with it? Everything I wanted is already there. So… Of course, close people's opinion is the most important, but close people will never delve into some certain role. So, I guess, one should do only those things, after which you won't rush to the first comer asking, "What do you think? What do you think?" and get lost - there it is good, and there it is bad. So, if you chose the thing you want to do and you did it. It's not that I don't care what people say. Of course, I do. Of course, like a normal person, I don't even hear what they say, I feel waves flowing about certain roles and so on and so forth. If you choose and go… If… Well, these high-flown words, but how can we cope without them. If you do it honestly, then you do it. And I really don't feel a need for listening to anything about… I hate it when they come backstage and try to start a conversation. I immediately try to move away from it. No matter if they say good or bad things… Well, a person gained some information from me, from the role, from a performance, from a film, and thank God. And if he didn't, well, he didn't, so what? Then he didn't need it. So… Actually I believe, one should take it easier… You can go mad if you take all the opinions too seriously… (Laughs)

***

Episodes from "Dyuba-Dyuba".

***

- Was it difficult for you to work abroad? It was a different country; did you feel some separation from the environment?
- Not from the environment, but from people. Because you need energy. When I left for London (it was in 1990-91) I had a project, I played Esenin with Vanessa Redgrave who played Isadora Duncan. It was a long project, I spent almost a year there. Then I played Ikharev in Gogol's "Gamblers". That role was in English. And that was all. And then in France I played the same performance I played in England.

***

Episodes from "Burnt By The Sun".

***

- I don't like it at all when I don't understand something. And when I understand nothing at all (laughs), it is really hard. Very hard. It was more interesting when I came back here and (well, 8 months are a long period) I dashed aside from the Russian speech. I went outside and everybody spoke Russian. And for me it was… I mean there I had never heard it. Well, I don't know, it's hard to explain. Russian speech made me feel unusual. Of course, what speech I could hear in Moscow. But it made an amazing impression on me.

- Well, our theatre is better (smiles). No, I am serious. The starting point in different. A person's existence onstage, the beginning is different. Still. They have fantastic theatre and cinema actors, but… Something, something is wrong. No, everything is right! But something… Well, I don't know… Take, for instance, Dustin Hoffman. He acts well in "Rain Man", very well. But when they say that Hoffman acts well, it is not a conversation about Hoffman, he has no right and he can't act badly. But there must be something more than just a good acting. No one expects Hoffman to act well. We expect some revelations from him. And we can fail. Big artists will never fail - if not played, a role will be "knitted together". And we can fail. Easily. Moreover, I think it is not that bad, because everything is based on emotions. I don't know. I may be wrong. Frankly speaking, I have never thought about it. I am thinking right now.

- Does someone else's creative work stimulate you? You mentioned Dustin Hoffman. Are there works that excite you, make you mentally...?
- You know, yes. But only if it is great. Well, you know, actually, I am very afraid to go to the theatre or cinema, because I don't want to get disappointed and see things I don't want to see. When… And many things become irritating immediately and I get angry because I can't understand what's going on, what I see, what I watch, how it can be. It means that I am beyond it - it can't be that all the 20 people onstage are beyond - so I am beyond it, it means I don't understand something. But then I think - how can it be, it can't be that I don't understand anything at all. So, things of the kind won't encourage me… An average or simply a good thing won't encourage me, won't give me a stimulus to work. It won't. And a great thing, let's put it like this, will. Because you always become a part of what you see when it is great. And it is a wonderful quality. When I watched "8 1/2" for the first time, I felt as if I was there. An incredible feeling of a flight. I feel it after watching all Fellini's films. Because you feel being a part of it. You created it with them. This is a fantastic quality. Of masterpieces. Like when I watched "Hamlet" when Bergman brought the performance. A grandiose performance. In this case, you can't even have a slightest hint of envy. You can't, because it is a masterpiece and you - I am repeating myself - become a part of it. And it is stupid to envy yourself.

- What about your own roles? What do you feel while watching them?
- (Sighs) Actually I don't really watch. Because I have this, you know… It's not like many actors say, "I would act differently". Well, my God, it's obviously, they'd act differently, why to talk about it at all? But I acted then - that year, that month, that day - so what does mean "differently"? This is your life, it is there, it is played then, at that moment. So what does it mean "differently"? But I feel a sort of… Maybe I feel it, because I don't like it at all… Well, I don't like it when photos of me appear in newspapers and magazines, I don't like to see… It somehow distempers me. It's not that I… I am a normal person (laughs). But, let's say, it doesn't help me.

***

Episodes from the set of "Burnt By The Sun".

***

- Why did I leave? Well, at some point… A trite answer - I got tired of the fact that someone else decided what I should do, where I should act, where I should go, if I can act here, if I can act there. I thought I could make all the decisions myself and choose roles following not the theatre order, but my own wishes and capability. That's why I left… I didn't leave the theatre in general and I am not going to do it. But you know, the same people surround you all the time, the criterion becomes deadened. They get to know you better and better, you know them better and better. And you just don't understand where to draw the new and how to interpret… They say - great, you acted great. But it's already different, you can't believe it already. It's not because they are lying, maybe they are telling the truth, but it is their truth. The truth of that small group. This is the truth of the theatre or art.
When I was leaving my last theatre, I was going nowhere. At that time I had neither a film nor another theatre. But I couldn't stand it any more. And when it happens you don't think about what will happen afterwards. You just have to make that move. And if you (laughs) did the right things before and are making this move considerately and you understand why you are doing it, then something will come. It should come… In my opinion, nothing happens all of a sudden. If you follow some path, something will appear. It won't probably happen immediately, but that's what great in these moves, when you enter a new phase of your life. You refuse the conditions of your life and you want to change them. And if you want it much enough, they will change. It's kind of like this (smiles).

- Are you expecting any changes in your life now?
- You can't imagine how right you guessed! (Laughs) Yes, I really expect, or rather, I don't even expect, I feel it will happen. I don't know what will come of it, but I understand something is coming. I may be wrong… Maybe… Or, it may not be about my work, it may be connected with my life. I don't know. But something is definitely coming. I don't know why. I have this wish to do something, to change… everything. Well, not everything, but many things.

- You are a free person now, right? And you gain more and more freedom. However, in fact, freedom is something hard. What is the hardest thing in it, in this freedom?
- (Thinks.) Weeeeell, I don't know… (A long pause.) You know, I think, the hardest thing is… I have never thought about it, so I am saying what came into my mind. It is not the hardest thing, but at some point you can't - I think, it will be the wrongest thing - say to yourself, "I am free!" I think, it can be a source of many troubles for you and those who surround you. I guess, one should be anxious to achieve it, although it is not very clear what it is, isn't it? What is "a free person"? What is it? It's impossible to explain it. But when we say it, we realize emotionally what it is. So, I think one should try to achieve it, but to say "I achieved it" would be dangerous, I guess.

- Well, you know, I don't think I am dependent on my profession. Maybe, in five years, I will say something totally different, but now I don't consider myself dependent on directors' and playwrights' wishes. Really. Maybe, it happened this way, maybe I am lucky, but I don't depend on it.

- Oleg, were you ever an "ugly duckling", in childhood or youth?
- I don't think so… No, no, I wasn't. No, I always was… In fact, one should say such things about himself, but that's the truth, I always was a leader. I mean, something gathered around me, something boiled. Well, I didn't boil, although maybe I did too… But no, I wasn't an "ugly duckling".

- You know, leadership is a very complicated thing. Because a leader is not the one who runs ahead of everybody. A leader is a person who makes all the others run. That's what leadership is, I think. He should be a keen person - I am not saying that I am keen, I am talking in general. A leader should be able to stop himself, to make himself stop talking, to compromise, to restrain something in his character so that the people around him blossom. That's what leadership is. It is not that I took a torch and ran, this is not a leadership. It is good too, but it is different. It is not leadership. A leader is…

- What do you do when you feel that on the set there is one more leader? A person who wants to become one?
- That's great. If he wants it very very much, I will give him (laughs) the leadership. No problem.

- My first film was "I Wait And Hope", which was shot at the Dovzhenko Film Studios. The director was Suren Shakhbazyan, who used to be a cameraman and then became a director. He was a wonderful person. And his friend Roma Balayan helped him, something went wrong and he began helping him, and that's when we got to know each other. I had to have my hair cut to the skin for Nikita Mikhalkov's film, but Suren couldn't let me go because I played a leading role in his film. But with Balayan's help... Because Balayan said that if a young actor appeared in Mikhalkov's film, he could attract attention. So, it was Balayan.

- But you had your hair cut, as far as I understand, didn't you?
- Yes. And at the Dovzhenko Studios I wore a wig. In an underhand way, Balayan had a wig made and Suren didn't know about it. Suren didn't notice anything. When I appeared wearing a wig, he said, "Did Menshikov wash his head or what?" (Laughs)

- How old were you then?
- Nineteen.